"Disassociating yourself from the freaks and terror supporters"
I hung in there through 2016, #metoo going off the rails, COVID, the Reckoning, Jan 6., Stolen Election, DEI, and still, *still*, I believed in dialogue with people I thought were crazy, and that no one was too far gone.
Oct 7, I hit my limit. I'm finally just blocking people.
Also, I bought half a pound of coriander seeds for $3 at the grocery store and I’m (pretty) sure they’re fine. I will miss the copious complimentary sample packs and Krakow Nights and the free homosexual poppy seeds. Be well, Bill.
Thank you for discussing the epic to be published by the beloved TNC "The Message." We, the Israeli support group, rehashed it with the same incredulity as you guys did. The publications day is Oct 1, 2024. I'm sure the date is just a pure coincidence.
But what irked me the most besides the audacity, ignorance, and framing after a 10 day visit, is the incredible risk mentioned that he's taking. I'm sorry but what risk? I agree with Kmele - people will hang onto his every word and now it will be cemented as the truth because he SAW it. He'll be making millions on this book and even more because now he'll be an expert on Israel, so I'm not sure his position at the Atlantic will be compromised in any way, which Matt speculated on.
But thank you for discussing it. It's been bugging me since that piece came out and I cannot wait to read Coleman's piece as I will not be reading this book.
I REALLY think his not speaking Arabic means his understanding is greatly, greatly hindered.
It also reminds me of when AOC said she was going to learn about the conflict by talking to motherfucking Jewish Voice for Peace. Because OBBVIOUSLY you'[ll get a big picture understanding that way.
He was always a Jew hater. His father was a Black Panther for real, what do you expect. But now Israel and Jew hating is a business plan. He’s a piece of shit.
Unfortunately I did catch Ruhle on Bill Maher, and I was a little amazed at how she blatantly said the quiet part, not only out loud, but screeching at the top of her lungs. We now have confirmation that the mainstream media believes it is their job to see that certain candidates get elected and certain candidates lose and their jobs should revolve around that function. Isn't that what Pravda and Tass were for?
Journalists--mainstream--have become activists instead of journalists. It's the saddest thing to watch unfold. We all have bias but this new level of tribal activism is startling.
I don’t think it would work as a movie/tv show. Theater, especially musicals, have a different dynamic & parameters. If it prods someone into historical research (even if it’s just to debunk things in the show) great. It’s one of the few musicals which you can listen to cast recording and get the whole story without even having to watch the performance.
I don’t know about the current cast or incarnation but when it was at the Public & the first year on Broadway 🔥🔥🔥
For me the most absurd part of the quote given from the book is the former rather than the latter: “All states at their core have a reason for existing, a moral story to tell; we certainly do.” What “reason for existing” or “moral story to tell” does England, say, purport to have? Is anyone in England claiming that the Celts (and then the Romans, then the Saxons, then the Vikings, then the Normans) were right and moral to invade the island? No, because that would be idiotic. Same for the French, the Italians, the Russians, and the Chinese. To claim otherwise - that the historically and militarily contingent coming to be of one’s state is virtuous - is the height of 19-century-style narcissistic nationalism, and to say that this is the global norm is the height of America-centrism.
The issue on the interview isn’t that it’s about the candidates at this point. It’s about the press. It’s about sending the message that they can be trusted. When they say something about either candidate, and especially Trump, I can trust it. Right now I don’t trust what Stephanie Ruhle will tell me about anything. And FYI for the folks at msnbc, that’s how Trump gets away with what he does. They’re enabling the whole thing.
Exactly. They somehow can't see that by gaslighting millions of independent voters they're repeating Clinton in 2016. For years it's been 'the end of democracy' and 'choose Dems cause they're not trump.' But it hasn't worked. Yet they keep pushing that same button.
My disappointment when *the return of Tennessee* in the show notes was about Ta-Nehisi not my birthplace :/
Thanks for giving him the right thrashing he deserves fellas, anyone who compared him favorably to James Baldwin when he burst on the scene at the right time for his brand of punditry or whatever a decade ago is no thoughtful critic; as a writer he's not fit to wipe the more talented, nuanced & insightful Baldwin's boots imho
Absolutely. Baldwin was a genius. Baldwin was reaching for something beyond himself. Coates is a decent writer, but the 'message' is pure hyperbolic Woke.
I was super psyched at very remote possibility of the Boys talking some Volunteers football…Also, that guy doesn’t deserve the honor of association with such a fine state
Do I have this right: Nuzzi sends racy pics to RFK. RFK blocks Nuzzi. Nuzzi cons RFK into unblocking her. Nuzzi sends more racy pics. MM says we need to explore the power dynamic. That what I heard?
Usually if there is overlap, I tend to favor the boy's takes over B&R.... but the RFK/Nuzzi breakdown at B&R was very very very good and very nuanced where I think Moyn must just be too close to the subject to be able to do that
True. MM is clearly standing by someone he’s friendly with, which is laudable. Also the glee at Nuzzi’s troubles coming from so called journalists is pretty disgusting.
Agreed. That's where I think B&R did well. They were pretty open to the fact that this was a big breach of ethics that this is reasonably a story but we're not dogpiling on her or think she should never work again. (Though the jokes and memes are very funny)
Yes, I respect MM more as a friend and less as an opiner on journalistic ethics. I’ve heard my friends say some crazy things if they think they have a shot…
Yes being a good friend is a good thing. I am sure it’s challenging being in the take business when your friend is the one you have to opine on. Sam Harris has talked in some detail about this.
I wouldn't go wasting exclamation points on the matter. What would rfk gain by lying? Reputation? What series of facts makes sending racy pics to a guy 40 years older, when both are in the public eye, sensible? I may have lost much respect for MM over this. He may have just made it clear he abandons truth and/or decorum for some person he may not really know.
His third marriage to a b role actress. You don't need to lie to keep that. She has been there through brainworm, bear story, his family denounced him, and now he's on Team Trump/Vance. She's fine.
I can’t believe I know this and am admitting it publicly, but there was a Joe Rogan podcast interview in 2017-2018 where Roseanne Barr talked about having brain damage from a car accident. In my favor, those years were probably the last time I listened to Rogan’s pod
I miss pre Covid Rogan. I still listen if there’s an interesting guess, but the change in tone and playfulness with batshit crazy ideas is striking. Yet I’ve to his comedy club and it’s always a blast.
Ha. My wife *loves* Rogan. I find him annoyingly predictable. Somewhat interesting. He has some great guests on occasionally. I wish he'd dialogue with more people who don't agree on 75%.
I realize you guys have a special place in your (hearts?) for Megyn, but do you ever listen to her when you are not on her show? She had fallen in love with her audience.
Matt!! I have also never seen Hamilton and am Hamilton-optimistic. (And I think I can sing most of the songs, but I was in the orchestra pit in high school & that’s sickness you never recover from.)
As our friend Ameya said:
This is exactly how I saw Hamilton - not as woke tokenism but an assertion of the universalism of the founders’ achievement. For the briefest moment, my own personal views on immigrant patriotism were ascendant. I’m very sad that the moment passed so fast.
Hamilton didn’t land as woke to me. There’s a couple of spots that kinda are. But it’s easy to not care because it’s so good. It’s just great entertainment.
"Disassociating yourself from the freaks and terror supporters"
I hung in there through 2016, #metoo going off the rails, COVID, the Reckoning, Jan 6., Stolen Election, DEI, and still, *still*, I believed in dialogue with people I thought were crazy, and that no one was too far gone.
Oct 7, I hit my limit. I'm finally just blocking people.
This was my trajectory with Penzey’s.
Yes we’re done with Penzeys
Also, I bought half a pound of coriander seeds for $3 at the grocery store and I’m (pretty) sure they’re fine. I will miss the copious complimentary sample packs and Krakow Nights and the free homosexual poppy seeds. Be well, Bill.
Feel ya 👍
“I’m going to talk to Megyn tomorrow and I’m going to ask her about this…”
“In public?”
I do not think people appreciate the subtlety of Matt Welch enough.
Thank you for discussing the epic to be published by the beloved TNC "The Message." We, the Israeli support group, rehashed it with the same incredulity as you guys did. The publications day is Oct 1, 2024. I'm sure the date is just a pure coincidence.
But what irked me the most besides the audacity, ignorance, and framing after a 10 day visit, is the incredible risk mentioned that he's taking. I'm sorry but what risk? I agree with Kmele - people will hang onto his every word and now it will be cemented as the truth because he SAW it. He'll be making millions on this book and even more because now he'll be an expert on Israel, so I'm not sure his position at the Atlantic will be compromised in any way, which Matt speculated on.
But thank you for discussing it. It's been bugging me since that piece came out and I cannot wait to read Coleman's piece as I will not be reading this book.
I REALLY think his not speaking Arabic means his understanding is greatly, greatly hindered.
It also reminds me of when AOC said she was going to learn about the conflict by talking to motherfucking Jewish Voice for Peace. Because OBBVIOUSLY you'[ll get a big picture understanding that way.
Yeah. Progressives will eat it up. Sad.
He was always a Jew hater. His father was a Black Panther for real, what do you expect. But now Israel and Jew hating is a business plan. He’s a piece of shit.
Exactly. Well said.
Unfortunately I did catch Ruhle on Bill Maher, and I was a little amazed at how she blatantly said the quiet part, not only out loud, but screeching at the top of her lungs. We now have confirmation that the mainstream media believes it is their job to see that certain candidates get elected and certain candidates lose and their jobs should revolve around that function. Isn't that what Pravda and Tass were for?
She was also unpleasantly smug and at times rude to Bret Stephens. I didn't know who she was but she rubbed me all the wrong ways.
Rubbed you the wrong way like you were at a P Diddy Freak Off??
that's the right way with lube. sans lube this one was
Same. I was like WTF? She was so very, very smug to him.
Agree 👍
What can we expect when like 98% of so called journalists are left of center
Journalists--mainstream--have become activists instead of journalists. It's the saddest thing to watch unfold. We all have bias but this new level of tribal activism is startling.
Kmele, you would enjoy Hamilton.
“Hamilton” is a great musical. End of.
I don’t think it would work as a movie/tv show. Theater, especially musicals, have a different dynamic & parameters. If it prods someone into historical research (even if it’s just to debunk things in the show) great. It’s one of the few musicals which you can listen to cast recording and get the whole story without even having to watch the performance.
I don’t know about the current cast or incarnation but when it was at the Public & the first year on Broadway 🔥🔥🔥
Yeah what’s wrong w/ Hamilton?
For me the most absurd part of the quote given from the book is the former rather than the latter: “All states at their core have a reason for existing, a moral story to tell; we certainly do.” What “reason for existing” or “moral story to tell” does England, say, purport to have? Is anyone in England claiming that the Celts (and then the Romans, then the Saxons, then the Vikings, then the Normans) were right and moral to invade the island? No, because that would be idiotic. Same for the French, the Italians, the Russians, and the Chinese. To claim otherwise - that the historically and militarily contingent coming to be of one’s state is virtuous - is the height of 19-century-style narcissistic nationalism, and to say that this is the global norm is the height of America-centrism.
That's true. It's not that states have a moral reason to exist...it's flexing historical muscle.
The issue on the interview isn’t that it’s about the candidates at this point. It’s about the press. It’s about sending the message that they can be trusted. When they say something about either candidate, and especially Trump, I can trust it. Right now I don’t trust what Stephanie Ruhle will tell me about anything. And FYI for the folks at msnbc, that’s how Trump gets away with what he does. They’re enabling the whole thing.
Exactly. They somehow can't see that by gaslighting millions of independent voters they're repeating Clinton in 2016. For years it's been 'the end of democracy' and 'choose Dems cause they're not trump.' But it hasn't worked. Yet they keep pushing that same button.
I can't like this post enough....Well said.
My disappointment when *the return of Tennessee* in the show notes was about Ta-Nehisi not my birthplace :/
Thanks for giving him the right thrashing he deserves fellas, anyone who compared him favorably to James Baldwin when he burst on the scene at the right time for his brand of punditry or whatever a decade ago is no thoughtful critic; as a writer he's not fit to wipe the more talented, nuanced & insightful Baldwin's boots imho
Absolutely. Baldwin was a genius. Baldwin was reaching for something beyond himself. Coates is a decent writer, but the 'message' is pure hyperbolic Woke.
I was super psyched at very remote possibility of the Boys talking some Volunteers football…Also, that guy doesn’t deserve the honor of association with such a fine state
Do I have this right: Nuzzi sends racy pics to RFK. RFK blocks Nuzzi. Nuzzi cons RFK into unblocking her. Nuzzi sends more racy pics. MM says we need to explore the power dynamic. That what I heard?
Blocked & Reported did a pretty decent breakdown. I listened while cooking & doing dishes etc.
Usually if there is overlap, I tend to favor the boy's takes over B&R.... but the RFK/Nuzzi breakdown at B&R was very very very good and very nuanced where I think Moyn must just be too close to the subject to be able to do that
True. MM is clearly standing by someone he’s friendly with, which is laudable. Also the glee at Nuzzi’s troubles coming from so called journalists is pretty disgusting.
Agreed. That's where I think B&R did well. They were pretty open to the fact that this was a big breach of ethics that this is reasonably a story but we're not dogpiling on her or think she should never work again. (Though the jokes and memes are very funny)
Also one wonders what kind of physical magnetism RFK has in person because our girl Olivia went way off the rails.
He must be charismatic as hell. It’s a sad fact of life that crazy people are often magnetic and alluring. Best to never engage in the first place.
Yes, I respect MM more as a friend and less as an opiner on journalistic ethics. I’ve heard my friends say some crazy things if they think they have a shot…
Perhaps a bit like Jesse can be about Taylor Lorenz. I do admire the desire to support a friend stuck in the shit.
Yes being a good friend is a good thing. I am sure it’s challenging being in the take business when your friend is the one you have to opine on. Sam Harris has talked in some detail about this.
I think MM is getting info from Nuzzi on what happened but isn't telling.
I have a bridge I’d like to sell you if you believe RFK jr.’s version of this!
I don’t think there is a power imbalance either, but I think MM’s point is that this framing is very arbitrarily assigned.
I wouldn't go wasting exclamation points on the matter. What would rfk gain by lying? Reputation? What series of facts makes sending racy pics to a guy 40 years older, when both are in the public eye, sensible? I may have lost much respect for MM over this. He may have just made it clear he abandons truth and/or decorum for some person he may not really know.
Well, I mean he may not gain anything, but by lying he just might not lose his marriage.
His third marriage to a b role actress. You don't need to lie to keep that. She has been there through brainworm, bear story, his family denounced him, and now he's on Team Trump/Vance. She's fine.
I can’t believe I know this and am admitting it publicly, but there was a Joe Rogan podcast interview in 2017-2018 where Roseanne Barr talked about having brain damage from a car accident. In my favor, those years were probably the last time I listened to Rogan’s pod
I miss pre Covid Rogan. I still listen if there’s an interesting guess, but the change in tone and playfulness with batshit crazy ideas is striking. Yet I’ve to his comedy club and it’s always a blast.
She had a terrible head injury, and she’s mentally ill. She’s like Kanye in that they have an actual medical excuse for the crazy.
Ha. My wife *loves* Rogan. I find him annoyingly predictable. Somewhat interesting. He has some great guests on occasionally. I wish he'd dialogue with more people who don't agree on 75%.
You are not alone.
I realize you guys have a special place in your (hearts?) for Megyn, but do you ever listen to her when you are not on her show? She had fallen in love with her audience.
I think she’s gotten more Trumpy in the past few months. I don’t listen to her show much anymore. Just when the lads are on!
Jim "The Hammer" Shapiro, inspiration to 1990s law students like me, totally ripped off that nickname from Fred Williamson.
"I might be slightly out of date but I don't think so" pretty much sums up Matt and Moynihan's taste in music
Oh I *know* I am more than slightly out of date.
Wow, epic “Greeeetings!!!” today.
I suppooze Kmele took his Adderall before reclerding.
"Adderall"
I feel thoroughly greeted (gret?).
They say "you snooze you lose" and I've snost
Little known fact: Stephanie Ruhle is related to Ja Rule
Matt!! I have also never seen Hamilton and am Hamilton-optimistic. (And I think I can sing most of the songs, but I was in the orchestra pit in high school & that’s sickness you never recover from.)
As our friend Ameya said:
This is exactly how I saw Hamilton - not as woke tokenism but an assertion of the universalism of the founders’ achievement. For the briefest moment, my own personal views on immigrant patriotism were ascendant. I’m very sad that the moment passed so fast.
https://substack.com/@massameya/note/c-50298236?r=7enhd&utm_medium=ios&utm_source=notes-share-action
That deserved a restack because yes, yes, yes.
Hamilton didn’t land as woke to me. There’s a couple of spots that kinda are. But it’s easy to not care because it’s so good. It’s just great entertainment.
GLOP pod talked about Hamilton this week - rave reviews. They called it the greatest piece of American art of the century - or something like that.
I'm behind on content consumption this week and was wondering why I was getting restacked! Thanks for the shoutout.