I appreciate Meacham. I read and reviewed his Lincoln biography on my stack. But why does he always find a way to sneak in the fact that his life is easy because he's a WSM? Just strange. He knows history inside and out: He surely understands that being a WSM doesn't automatically protect you from poverty, violence, drugs, oppression, etc.
Also: Are Matt and Kmele dead? They've been missing the last like 3-4 pods.
what an odd interview - I would not put "taking down websites that the executive branch of the federal government runs" on a list of intentionally cruel things Trump has done. Also Katie Britt should be noted as R-K Street but she is in fact from Alabama. I'd make more fun of her but her husband is an actual giant.
"Harris would have won if the campaign had been 90 days." That is unadulterated cope that I hope the rest of the left doesn't believe. I remember that election, and there was no Kamala-mentum in the final days. Trump won *every single swing state*. She was cooked from at least the moment the "They/Them" ad dropped, maybe earlier.
Kamala ran for 107 days I believe. So I took this to mean that she would have done better had the election been 2 weeks earlier. I’m not sure how true that is, but anyway it doesn’t speak highly of the candidate if she gets worse the more you know her.
Ahh.... yeah, you may be right that he meant shorter. I'd have to go back and listen to it again, but I can completely believe my priors colored my interpretation of his statement. If he meant shorter, then it's possible (though still IMO unlikely).
I frankly don't have any idea what would make an accent "offensive" in the first place. Even bad impressions of an accent can be fucking hilarious under the right circumstances. But I also don't think there is anything *intrinsically* offensive about, say, blackface: it's not done anymore because of the historical context surrounding the practice (basically, white entertainers pretending to be black while acting stupid to mock actual black people), but absent that context it's no different from any other kind of makeup an actor might wear.
I think Meacham analysis is just wrong. We have Trump because the Democrats failed to maintain the trust of the American people. Even now they provide no alternative policies to address the needs of Americans and especially the working class. Instead, their politics are anti-Trump and anti conservative nd Republican voters. They have doubled down on all the craziness being pushed by their Leftwing base. Democrats have and continue to be wrong on a range of issues from race relations, identity politics, patriotism, immigration to trans rights. The center of the Democratic Party shifted to the absurd well before Trump came on the scene. I am uncomfortable with the current rights embrace of illiberalism, but the Democrats are far from liberal centrist.
can we get that as a separate audio track somewhere? is this the first time you've played that? i usually listen all the way through the end and i feel like i'd never heard that before.
some of the whining synthesizers in it remind me of robert wyatt's sea song.
I appreciate these interviews even if I disagree, at times vociferously, with the guest. They’re still engaging discussions and I like Welch’s vs Moynihan’s styles, different and both interesting. Love to get a Kmele interview to compare styles. Sort of a maiden, woman, crone thing (sorry Matt).
So, all that said, I enjoyed Meech but a Biden speech writer with full TDS on display with *nothing*, literally nothing to say about the Biden administration’s soft coup as an existential threat totally burns his credibility as anything but a partisan. Moynihan not asking the question using the term “soft-coup” is also irksome.
Great conversation! Although I do wonder if he regrets his genius idea of convincing Biden he could be like FDR and LBJ with a closely divided Congress.
Yeah, I really enjoyed this interview and have enjoyed several of Meacham's books but when MM mentioned Biden, I remembered that Meacham was one of the guys that gassed up Biden about being the next LBJ, much to everyone's detriment. Was hoping MM would ask him about it.
That was my thoughts on this. While being mostly reasonable and chill, there were a couple of spots where I was like “okay, but this is supposedly the guy who helped convince Biden he could do it big and be remembered as great.”
Great conversation. I was glad to hear Annette Gordon-Reed’s work referenced during the discussion of Jefferson. Moynihan has mentioned Hemings and the denial of Jefferson’s paternity several times over the years. Maybe it’s time to have Gordon-Reed on the podcast. She was, after all, close friends with the late, great Christopher Hitchens.
For anyone interested in the claims being made, go back and listen to Douglas Murray’s interview with Jean Yarbrough on the Uncancelled History podcast. I like Murray just fine but he really dropped the ball during this interview. Yarbrough is intent on laundering Jefferson’s reputation and spends quite a bit of time explaining that the DNA evidence only proves that some unnamed Jefferson male sired Hemings’ children. It could have been anyone according to Yarbrough.
She goes on to attack Gordon-Reed by name. This is where it gets interesting. One of the theories that Gordon-Reed is famous for is as follows- the possibility that Jefferson and Hemings were involved in a consensual relationship (or something resembling one) cannot be dismissed. Were they in love? Gordon-Reed seems agnostic about this, but she entertains the possibility. And there’s evidence to back this up to a certain extent. Ultimately it’s unknowable, but it’s worth considering. And as far as I’m concerned, it definitely complicates the narratives of at least two deeply entrenched sides of this debate.
Yarbrough dismisses the possibility of a romantic relationship by pointing out that Gordon-Reed made this claim around the same time that William Jefferson Clinton was mired in his own sexual scandal. According to Yarbrough, the romantic relationship theory was an attempt by the Left to launder the reputation of Bill Clinton. Or soften the blow. Or something. This seems ridiculous to me. I’d love to hear Moynihan dig into the details at some point. It’s a pretty interesting topic.
I like Meacham, and this was a good talk, but my biggest takeaway, albeit selfishly, is the comfort of knowing I'm not the only one who struggles with friendships.
Note: Once upon a teaching career, I purchased my own set of "Amusing Ourselves to Death" and taught it to my classes.
another fabulous historical pod! if you squint your ears (is there even an equivalent to squinting your eyes for ears?) Jon sounds to me a lot like Matthew Mcconaughey, very soothing lol.
Great interview. Meacham is for sure on the Olympic podium of 20/21st century American historians. I like an occasional crazy person interview but this is more my jam.
I appreciate Meacham. I read and reviewed his Lincoln biography on my stack. But why does he always find a way to sneak in the fact that his life is easy because he's a WSM? Just strange. He knows history inside and out: He surely understands that being a WSM doesn't automatically protect you from poverty, violence, drugs, oppression, etc.
Also: Are Matt and Kmele dead? They've been missing the last like 3-4 pods.
School vacation week. My guess is that they're off and they had a few one-on-ones in the can
Michael is just a really great interviewer. Love it.
what an odd interview - I would not put "taking down websites that the executive branch of the federal government runs" on a list of intentionally cruel things Trump has done. Also Katie Britt should be noted as R-K Street but she is in fact from Alabama. I'd make more fun of her but her husband is an actual giant.
"Harris would have won if the campaign had been 90 days." That is unadulterated cope that I hope the rest of the left doesn't believe. I remember that election, and there was no Kamala-mentum in the final days. Trump won *every single swing state*. She was cooked from at least the moment the "They/Them" ad dropped, maybe earlier.
Kamala ran for 107 days I believe. So I took this to mean that she would have done better had the election been 2 weeks earlier. I’m not sure how true that is, but anyway it doesn’t speak highly of the candidate if she gets worse the more you know her.
Ahh.... yeah, you may be right that he meant shorter. I'd have to go back and listen to it again, but I can completely believe my priors colored my interpretation of his statement. If he meant shorter, then it's possible (though still IMO unlikely).
That was nearly my change channel moment
“Why are you a historian?” was asked with the same energy as “Why r u ghey?”
Haven't listened yet, but it would be really great if Moynihan asked it in the same accent.
I feel like he’s done more offensive accents before tbh
Such as?
I frankly don't have any idea what would make an accent "offensive" in the first place. Even bad impressions of an accent can be fucking hilarious under the right circumstances. But I also don't think there is anything *intrinsically* offensive about, say, blackface: it's not done anymore because of the historical context surrounding the practice (basically, white entertainers pretending to be black while acting stupid to mock actual black people), but absent that context it's no different from any other kind of makeup an actor might wear.
I think Meacham analysis is just wrong. We have Trump because the Democrats failed to maintain the trust of the American people. Even now they provide no alternative policies to address the needs of Americans and especially the working class. Instead, their politics are anti-Trump and anti conservative nd Republican voters. They have doubled down on all the craziness being pushed by their Leftwing base. Democrats have and continue to be wrong on a range of issues from race relations, identity politics, patriotism, immigration to trans rights. The center of the Democratic Party shifted to the absurd well before Trump came on the scene. I am uncomfortable with the current rights embrace of illiberalism, but the Democrats are far from liberal centrist.
the outro music kicks butt.
can we get that as a separate audio track somewhere? is this the first time you've played that? i usually listen all the way through the end and i feel like i'd never heard that before.
some of the whining synthesizers in it remind me of robert wyatt's sea song.
Came to say the same. That outro slapped - have they been sitting on that for ten years now?
I appreciate these interviews even if I disagree, at times vociferously, with the guest. They’re still engaging discussions and I like Welch’s vs Moynihan’s styles, different and both interesting. Love to get a Kmele interview to compare styles. Sort of a maiden, woman, crone thing (sorry Matt).
So, all that said, I enjoyed Meech but a Biden speech writer with full TDS on display with *nothing*, literally nothing to say about the Biden administration’s soft coup as an existential threat totally burns his credibility as anything but a partisan. Moynihan not asking the question using the term “soft-coup” is also irksome.
That is all.
Maiden-Mother-Crone ~ they’re all women 😅
That was fantastic
Excellent conversation
Great conversation! Although I do wonder if he regrets his genius idea of convincing Biden he could be like FDR and LBJ with a closely divided Congress.
Wait, he's that guy? That definitely adds to the convo.
Yeah, I really enjoyed this interview and have enjoyed several of Meacham's books but when MM mentioned Biden, I remembered that Meacham was one of the guys that gassed up Biden about being the next LBJ, much to everyone's detriment. Was hoping MM would ask him about it.
That was my thoughts on this. While being mostly reasonable and chill, there were a couple of spots where I was like “okay, but this is supposedly the guy who helped convince Biden he could do it big and be remembered as great.”
it's the 3 of you in the room together making me laugh that gets my $10 / month. tf??
This one is pretty good though!
Moynahan is great
Great conversation. I was glad to hear Annette Gordon-Reed’s work referenced during the discussion of Jefferson. Moynihan has mentioned Hemings and the denial of Jefferson’s paternity several times over the years. Maybe it’s time to have Gordon-Reed on the podcast. She was, after all, close friends with the late, great Christopher Hitchens.
For anyone interested in the claims being made, go back and listen to Douglas Murray’s interview with Jean Yarbrough on the Uncancelled History podcast. I like Murray just fine but he really dropped the ball during this interview. Yarbrough is intent on laundering Jefferson’s reputation and spends quite a bit of time explaining that the DNA evidence only proves that some unnamed Jefferson male sired Hemings’ children. It could have been anyone according to Yarbrough.
She goes on to attack Gordon-Reed by name. This is where it gets interesting. One of the theories that Gordon-Reed is famous for is as follows- the possibility that Jefferson and Hemings were involved in a consensual relationship (or something resembling one) cannot be dismissed. Were they in love? Gordon-Reed seems agnostic about this, but she entertains the possibility. And there’s evidence to back this up to a certain extent. Ultimately it’s unknowable, but it’s worth considering. And as far as I’m concerned, it definitely complicates the narratives of at least two deeply entrenched sides of this debate.
Yarbrough dismisses the possibility of a romantic relationship by pointing out that Gordon-Reed made this claim around the same time that William Jefferson Clinton was mired in his own sexual scandal. According to Yarbrough, the romantic relationship theory was an attempt by the Left to launder the reputation of Bill Clinton. Or soften the blow. Or something. This seems ridiculous to me. I’d love to hear Moynihan dig into the details at some point. It’s a pretty interesting topic.
I like Meacham, and this was a good talk, but my biggest takeaway, albeit selfishly, is the comfort of knowing I'm not the only one who struggles with friendships.
Note: Once upon a teaching career, I purchased my own set of "Amusing Ourselves to Death" and taught it to my classes.
another fabulous historical pod! if you squint your ears (is there even an equivalent to squinting your eyes for ears?) Jon sounds to me a lot like Matthew Mcconaughey, very soothing lol.
Great interview. Meacham is for sure on the Olympic podium of 20/21st century American historians. I like an occasional crazy person interview but this is more my jam.