John Avlon stops by only to learn he's also in the Epstein files, why the Daily Beast should’ve sold dick pills, and why we need to rebuild guardrails on what some call "stolen land"
Avlon a few times referred to the problem with the academic left as "whatever comes out of the Berkeley faculty lounge" in an effort to minimize how bad it is. I hate this argument so much. It's much more than that, John. The 5th column guys already gave the example of the 1619 Project, an ahistorical political project that is currently being taught in schools across the country. And even the stuff Avlon is attempting to dismiss (like land acknowledgments or pronouns) aren't just performative annoyances; they are part of an entire worldview that includes dogmatic declarations about identity, human nature, the West, colonialism. This worldview is so dominant that the vast majority of academics adhere to it, it's baked into most universities deeply. And even after Trump's second victory it's still difficult to question it.
Go ahead and say the right is still worse, but at least diagnose the problem correctly.
Avlon was also pretty hand-wavy about how far left Biden governed ("It was just a few Warren staffers"), especially after he (Biden) campaigned as a more moderate, return to center type.
They’re a special breed of delusional & disconnected. They talk principles but they immediately advocate for the opposite of issues they advocated for decades just to oppose Trump. A principled actor sounds more like Rand Paul who uses his beliefs to judge Trump issue by issue
It's that and the hand-waving, unnuanced swipes at "(L)ibertarians" these Bulwarkards always do. "Oh, you silly libertarians and your 'free markets'--that's how we got Trump!"
Love the steady stream of content. Matt had a busy week with this episode, the recent semiquincentennial special, and the live Reason Roundtable event in DC last night. Thanks for coming to DC, Matt. I enjoyed the show. Next time bring the slackers with you and tack on a proper TFC event!
I ended my subscription to the Bulwark because most of its lead writers and talkers (looking at you, JVL and Tim Miller) have one through line: Trump and his voters are either stupid, racist or both.
I have never voted for Trump, but their smug condescending attitude made me spend my money elsewhere. This interview has not brought me back to their fold.
Yes. I thought Reason (including MW) kicked Tim Miller's ass during "Reason vs." debate. Bulwark really does seem to believe that you are bad if you aren't on their team.
Idem. I used to appreciate their somewhat right of center level headed view, but the hysteria and actual TDS (I can't believe it but it's actually a thing) make this publication indistinguishable from Pod Save America & co
I loved when Avalon goes…”Wanna find about the danger of ‘white identity politics’, Pay attention to this administration”
Yes, but of course….this all started with the Orange Cheeto Jesus. As Kmele correctly states all the time: Racial Essentialism is BAD. In all forms. Period. You will never hear pukes like Mr. Married to a Hoover Great Granddaughter say that though. I’m sure he’s a nice guy and everything but man is he the epitome of Milton Academy/Yale Country Club Media Hack and CONGRESSIONAL CANDIATE hack.
Some are wanting a Batya convo every week I swear, but I love a good civil conversation with folks with political differences. It’s something this pod does well.
Agreed! I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. I wasn’t familiar with Avlon prior to listening, but I found him very refreshing! He has my vote (although I’m not sure where to cast it…🤷🏼♀️).
Probably not send masked goons to shoot people in red towns or do a J6 rally or threaten to take Greenland by force or threaten to send ice agents the polls or threaten nationalize elections in states you don’t like.
probably would’ve been some real stupid DEI shit and would be a traditionally shitty president instead of historically short president.
I mean they definitely sent goons after red America for horrible crimes like speaking up at school board meetings or whistle blowing on hospitals instead of enforcing the law against silly crimes that Trump made up like illegal immigration
Right, it was much worse under the Biden regime and reed cities still supported federal law enforcement, and didn’t rouse angry mobs to impede the feds at every turn, thanks for the correction your correct to point out the Biden admin was much much worse
Surely you know that ICE isn’t literally going out with the mission to shoot people. You can’t possibly think that we were ever actually going to attack Greenland. Right?
I love that defense of the American president saying completely unhinged absurd things about our allies is “nah he’s def full of shit.” Until he’ll actually does the thing, like J6 or like never conceding an election, then “it’s not that big of deal” and the goal posts get moved. Wild times man.
Yes I’m aware they’re not firing squads. They’re woefully undertrained and sent into what can only be described as an incompetent mission. They don’t seem to actually know who they’re supposed to be looking for and a lot of people are getting wrongfully arrested and detained.
they’re a perfect on the ground representation of this idiotic administration.
Didn’t Officer Harris illegally detain children from their parents when she doing whatever in California. If you really want to be happy just accept that government is just a couple of rival gangs fighting over the spoils of government.
While definitely am sympathetic to the view I’m not that cynical yet. I think decent people in both parties with decent well-meaning ideas that genuinely want to help people.
Matt, to your good point regarding the destabilizing effects of moving from a print-based culture to an oral culture, you should have on @James Marriott who has thought and written extensively about the topic. He would be a great guest on @The Fifth Column
Appreciate his perspectives, but I also think a ton of the stuff that’s been done solely in the name of stopping Republicans is absolutely unforgivable.
I do recall tons about Romney and McCain that make it difficult to ever consider “going blue.”
You don’t think the dog-ok-the-roof-of-The-AMC-Eagle didn’t stick for some?
But u think immaterial. Nobody is at all serious about fixing the fiscal problems.
Yeah, I have a long memory going all the way back to the Clarence Thomas hearings, which I listened to clandestinely in high schools classes by running earbuds down the sleeve of my coat to a small radio in the coat's pocket. I have a LOT of issues with the current GOP and didn't vote for Trump, but nothing could persuade me to "vote blue".
Yeah. The Thomas hearings were while I was in Germany….so day-late stuff on AFN with the SNL bits. (I’m too lazy to STFW to find who played Howell Heflin asking about porn in one of the skits….)
But earlier than that I can remember officers getting in trouble for “Fire Congress Hire Ollie” bumper stickers.
But a lot of it comes from the attempts to erase the history. They mentioned Lester Maddox. And there was Jimmy Carter who was a big LT Calley fan. Had a relative who was urged to get off the porch when he was campaigning for whoever was running against Jim Eastland.
Most of my adult life has been in VA, where they tried to erase a bunch of stuff after 2020. Fort Lee?!? Harry Byrd Highway?
And as always, remember that Mitt Romney was going to "put y'all back in chains" and reinstitute slavery or something according to Joe Biden at the time
Avlon is such a midwit. He’s the embodiment of the completely average political commentator who never says anything original or insightful, yet floats from media company to media company over the years, getting fatter and flatter until, one day, he finally goes down the pipe on the fourth flush and is gone and never remembered.
He probably remembered that phrase from when sartorial middle schooler who just went on a trip to the beach and got a tubular hemp necklace Tim Miller interviewed the young Twinkfluencer who was running the Unfuck America tour before it fucked itself into oblivion on The Bulwark
Your interview with John Avlos shows that he is as partisan and tribal as he accuses the Trumpian right of being. The term asymmetrical polarization is simply another way of slurring the political Right without addressing any concerns or policy preferences that differ from his own partisan positions.
Indeed, the term asymmetric polarization simply is not supported by the facts. Bill Clinton, in the early 90s, attempted to move the party more toward the center because they had already moved well to the Left cultural and political left of the median American voter. Arguably with its focus on identity politics it is even further afield of the country’s mainstream. The cultural values animating the party today can only be thought of as what Rob Henderson calls “luxury beliefs “.
Moreover, the Democrats have been moving steadily toward what can only be thought of as more totalitarian as evidenced by their hate speech rhetoric and actions to limit free speech and exchange; using their relationships with business, media and education institutions to attack and debase any political or ideological rivals.
The Democrats and the left’s control over key information and educational institutions has been used to obscure their headlong rush to the radical left— process that has been going on since at least the late 60s. Arguably, the Trump administration is a response by a large segment of the American populace to reject the left’s vision for society.
I'm sorry, but anyone who suggests that Bill Fucking Kristol is principled loses all credibility. They left it to the very end, so kudos on that. Good God, though...
Avlon a few times referred to the problem with the academic left as "whatever comes out of the Berkeley faculty lounge" in an effort to minimize how bad it is. I hate this argument so much. It's much more than that, John. The 5th column guys already gave the example of the 1619 Project, an ahistorical political project that is currently being taught in schools across the country. And even the stuff Avlon is attempting to dismiss (like land acknowledgments or pronouns) aren't just performative annoyances; they are part of an entire worldview that includes dogmatic declarations about identity, human nature, the West, colonialism. This worldview is so dominant that the vast majority of academics adhere to it, it's baked into most universities deeply. And even after Trump's second victory it's still difficult to question it.
Go ahead and say the right is still worse, but at least diagnose the problem correctly.
Avlon was also pretty hand-wavy about how far left Biden governed ("It was just a few Warren staffers"), especially after he (Biden) campaigned as a more moderate, return to center type.
“You’re actually gonna do this?” My dude, meet Kmele. You’re probably not used to having to “do this.”
These Bulwarkinians always seem so shocked when asked to defend or elucidate their positions.
They’re a special breed of delusional & disconnected. They talk principles but they immediately advocate for the opposite of issues they advocated for decades just to oppose Trump. A principled actor sounds more like Rand Paul who uses his beliefs to judge Trump issue by issue
Just the fact that he thinks Moynihan is conservative shows how out of touch he is.
It's that and the hand-waving, unnuanced swipes at "(L)ibertarians" these Bulwarkards always do. "Oh, you silly libertarians and your 'free markets'--that's how we got Trump!"
Love the steady stream of content. Matt had a busy week with this episode, the recent semiquincentennial special, and the live Reason Roundtable event in DC last night. Thanks for coming to DC, Matt. I enjoyed the show. Next time bring the slackers with you and tack on a proper TFC event!
I ended my subscription to the Bulwark because most of its lead writers and talkers (looking at you, JVL and Tim Miller) have one through line: Trump and his voters are either stupid, racist or both.
I have never voted for Trump, but their smug condescending attitude made me spend my money elsewhere. This interview has not brought me back to their fold.
Yes. I thought Reason (including MW) kicked Tim Miller's ass during "Reason vs." debate. Bulwark really does seem to believe that you are bad if you aren't on their team.
Gosh that debate was cringe. Our poor lads
Idem. I used to appreciate their somewhat right of center level headed view, but the hysteria and actual TDS (I can't believe it but it's actually a thing) make this publication indistinguishable from Pod Save America & co
I think as a category people who were 9/11 Giuliani Republicans and are now Democrats are among the most embarrassing groups of talking heads
I loved when Avalon goes…”Wanna find about the danger of ‘white identity politics’, Pay attention to this administration”
Yes, but of course….this all started with the Orange Cheeto Jesus. As Kmele correctly states all the time: Racial Essentialism is BAD. In all forms. Period. You will never hear pukes like Mr. Married to a Hoover Great Granddaughter say that though. I’m sure he’s a nice guy and everything but man is he the epitome of Milton Academy/Yale Country Club Media Hack and CONGRESSIONAL CANDIATE hack.
He says several times “I’m against all identity politics”, which would makes safe assumption he wouldn’t like race essentialism.
Some are wanting a Batya convo every week I swear, but I love a good civil conversation with folks with political differences. It’s something this pod does well.
Agreed! I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. I wasn’t familiar with Avlon prior to listening, but I found him very refreshing! He has my vote (although I’m not sure where to cast it…🤷🏼♀️).
I never vote, so being annoyed at Trump is fine. But this stuff is quite repetitive. I also shudder to think what President Harris would have done.
Probably not send masked goons to shoot people in red towns or do a J6 rally or threaten to take Greenland by force or threaten to send ice agents the polls or threaten nationalize elections in states you don’t like.
probably would’ve been some real stupid DEI shit and would be a traditionally shitty president instead of historically short president.
I mean they definitely sent goons after red America for horrible crimes like speaking up at school board meetings or whistle blowing on hospitals instead of enforcing the law against silly crimes that Trump made up like illegal immigration
😂 yea sure same thing.
Right, it was much worse under the Biden regime and reed cities still supported federal law enforcement, and didn’t rouse angry mobs to impede the feds at every turn, thanks for the correction your correct to point out the Biden admin was much much worse
😆
😆
Surely you know that ICE isn’t literally going out with the mission to shoot people. You can’t possibly think that we were ever actually going to attack Greenland. Right?
I love that defense of the American president saying completely unhinged absurd things about our allies is “nah he’s def full of shit.” Until he’ll actually does the thing, like J6 or like never conceding an election, then “it’s not that big of deal” and the goal posts get moved. Wild times man.
Not at all- I just need to know that you know ICE isn’t literally working as death squads
And yeah I don’t know how much of J6 you can tie to Trump but we’re not going to relitigate that
Yes I’m aware they’re not firing squads. They’re woefully undertrained and sent into what can only be described as an incompetent mission. They don’t seem to actually know who they’re supposed to be looking for and a lot of people are getting wrongfully arrested and detained.
they’re a perfect on the ground representation of this idiotic administration.
Didn’t Officer Harris illegally detain children from their parents when she doing whatever in California. If you really want to be happy just accept that government is just a couple of rival gangs fighting over the spoils of government.
While definitely am sympathetic to the view I’m not that cynical yet. I think decent people in both parties with decent well-meaning ideas that genuinely want to help people.
Yes but the incentives are distorted.
Matt, to your good point regarding the destabilizing effects of moving from a print-based culture to an oral culture, you should have on @James Marriott who has thought and written extensively about the topic. He would be a great guest on @The Fifth Column
Appreciate his perspectives, but I also think a ton of the stuff that’s been done solely in the name of stopping Republicans is absolutely unforgivable.
I do recall tons about Romney and McCain that make it difficult to ever consider “going blue.”
You don’t think the dog-ok-the-roof-of-The-AMC-Eagle didn’t stick for some?
But u think immaterial. Nobody is at all serious about fixing the fiscal problems.
Yeah, I have a long memory going all the way back to the Clarence Thomas hearings, which I listened to clandestinely in high schools classes by running earbuds down the sleeve of my coat to a small radio in the coat's pocket. I have a LOT of issues with the current GOP and didn't vote for Trump, but nothing could persuade me to "vote blue".
Yeah. The Thomas hearings were while I was in Germany….so day-late stuff on AFN with the SNL bits. (I’m too lazy to STFW to find who played Howell Heflin asking about porn in one of the skits….)
But earlier than that I can remember officers getting in trouble for “Fire Congress Hire Ollie” bumper stickers.
But a lot of it comes from the attempts to erase the history. They mentioned Lester Maddox. And there was Jimmy Carter who was a big LT Calley fan. Had a relative who was urged to get off the porch when he was campaigning for whoever was running against Jim Eastland.
Most of my adult life has been in VA, where they tried to erase a bunch of stuff after 2020. Fort Lee?!? Harry Byrd Highway?
And as always, remember that Mitt Romney was going to "put y'all back in chains" and reinstitute slavery or something according to Joe Biden at the time
great talk. thanks. That's why I subscribe
More Klosterman type guests..less boring political hacks.
Avlon is such a midwit. He’s the embodiment of the completely average political commentator who never says anything original or insightful, yet floats from media company to media company over the years, getting fatter and flatter until, one day, he finally goes down the pipe on the fourth flush and is gone and never remembered.
Joe Weisenthal at the Odd Lots has been on the orality beat, very interesting stuff
https://www.unfuckamericatour.com/ guess they already tried
He probably remembered that phrase from when sartorial middle schooler who just went on a trip to the beach and got a tubular hemp necklace Tim Miller interviewed the young Twinkfluencer who was running the Unfuck America tour before it fucked itself into oblivion on The Bulwark
Your interview with John Avlos shows that he is as partisan and tribal as he accuses the Trumpian right of being. The term asymmetrical polarization is simply another way of slurring the political Right without addressing any concerns or policy preferences that differ from his own partisan positions.
Indeed, the term asymmetric polarization simply is not supported by the facts. Bill Clinton, in the early 90s, attempted to move the party more toward the center because they had already moved well to the Left cultural and political left of the median American voter. Arguably with its focus on identity politics it is even further afield of the country’s mainstream. The cultural values animating the party today can only be thought of as what Rob Henderson calls “luxury beliefs “.
Moreover, the Democrats have been moving steadily toward what can only be thought of as more totalitarian as evidenced by their hate speech rhetoric and actions to limit free speech and exchange; using their relationships with business, media and education institutions to attack and debase any political or ideological rivals.
The Democrats and the left’s control over key information and educational institutions has been used to obscure their headlong rush to the radical left— process that has been going on since at least the late 60s. Arguably, the Trump administration is a response by a large segment of the American populace to reject the left’s vision for society.
I'm sorry, but anyone who suggests that Bill Fucking Kristol is principled loses all credibility. They left it to the very end, so kudos on that. Good God, though...