MPD officer: thank you for your service. I am so sorry that you’re stuck in the middle of this. I appreciate you! Your perspective shared in this letter is the best thing I’ve heard anyone say about the incidents in Minneapolis. I wish I could give you a big hug because I can only imagine what it takes to get up every day and continue on with your important work.
Much appreciated. I had lived in Saint Paul and enjoyed it until 2020 when everyone went insane and mob violence was seen first hand. After my house was robbed several times and friends were held up at gunpoint for laptops I moved to the burbs. Now with this latest insanity, and believe it I have heard it from all my long time friends, I see no hope for the Twin Cities. My next move will be to rural Wisconsin. The hell with Minnesota.
Not one of the letter writers, but I check out the chat occasionally and have posted in there a few times. My experience is that I am very underwhelmed with the quality of discourse in there sometimes. I had high hopes, but it isn't that much better than many other online chat/forum/comment sections. It is very dominated by the same small number of people posting constantly, and some of the frequent posters can be a bit prickly and dogmatic with their opinions (not talking about you), I would even say sometimes bordering on mean. I know a lot of the people in there know each other, so they understand its not personal when it gets heated, but I can imagine this would turn some people off.
This makes sense. I only got involved in the chat recently and I imagine there’s a life cycle for engagement. You need to enjoy being part of the “cast of characters” and find it fun and entertaining. I don’t like meanness either, I appreciate being able to share contrarian views and find support in the chat but I also don’t mind predictable rebuttals (that’s the point!) we are all in this together. Also I mostly post pictures of my 3 dogs
I also appreciate posts that share information. It doesn’t have to be a a troll to share a particularly good article or podcast we just found illuminating! But I get why people don’t want to roll around in the mud! Writing emails is a good way to stay above the fray in the chat while providing voice to the voiceless.
I just want to post a recommendation for Alex's excellent podcast and substack History Impossible. His recent coverage of Muslim SS units in WW2 and Haj Al Amin Husseini's relationship with Nazi Germany was excellent and thorough. The link he posted in his email is definitely worth the time.
The joint episode he did with Jack Henneman was also excellent.
Great letters. Thank you all for an insider view of MSP. I haven’t been since 2010 but it is one of my favorite midwestern cities. Thank you, Samantha, for the gentle reminder about the chat. It’s sometimes hard for us to remember that a lot of our views are very clinical and removed.
MPD officer: we need you in the chat! Thank you for using the term theory of mind when describing the mis(interpretation) of ICE and police officer use of force by activists and pundits. I don’t know how anyone thinks that these public servants (yes including ice) go into these encounters hoping to kill civilians. They get there by dehumanizing them and likening them the Gestapo, Slave patrols, etc…This becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and we get 2020 again.
A good mix of viewpoints represented in these emails.
I grew up on the Minneapolis side and now live on the St. Paul side. And my verdict? This is a case of both sides behaving poorly. And ZERO leadership from any MN politicians to help mitigate it. And that goes for both Democrats and Republicans. And Walz and Frye? Fucking turds. 🖕
Gotta agree with the second email. Cops do have human emotions and I don’t think the officer was looking ok to execute pretti.
I also don’t think that officer has the temperament to be an officer then though. At best he should never work in law enforcement again and I’d be fine with him having a hard time even getting a gun in the future.
As for the “no cop wants to commit violence. They’re human”. Sure. Some probably most . But serial killers are also human at the end of the day. So are gang lords and terrorists. All human. But I rankle at the “all” aspect of this. I think there have been enough examples of cops and even ICE agents that have been quietly fired for doing don’t pretty fucked up shit. Power and powerful positions create a moral hazard that will not always attract the best and brightest. And I agree that is where leadership comes into play.
But I really dislike the “because human=nuanced and good”. Sure. That’s probably a safe assumption and given 1:1 odds you’d do well betting on the proposition. But you certainly wouldn’t win every bet.
There are more than enough people in law enforcement that shouldn’t be, that do relish their power, and that do look to abuse it. It’s not a majority. It’s not even a large minority. But it’s more than enough and also too much at the same time.
Not related to this mailbucket, but today I happened to see posts elsewhere by both Christopher Buckley and Abagail Shrier, and I think they would both be good future guests for TFC.
Also good email from mark e. But I need some of these “just enforce the laws” people to explicitly prove that they even remotely understand the laws they really want enforced.
I’m fine with enforcing immigration law. If it was rational and reasonable.
Which it isn’t.
So you have to convince me we allow enough legal immigration every year. And since no one has then I don’t care when people break a self created, xenophobic, prohibition.
People want to come here. Create an actual path with actual steps that actually works.
"I’m fine with enforcing immigration law. If it was rational and reasonable.
Which it isn’t."
That's not for you to decide. Are we a nation of laws or are we not? If you are displeased with current immigration policy then you need to vote in representatives that will change it. I'm astonished at the sheet hubris...
Hubris. Really? So because a law exists we are all ALWYS bound to follow it. Really? Speaking of hubris.
May I unpack this with you? Do you speed? I mean it? Do you? Why? Why don’t speed? Probably a lot of reasons. Most of which end you believe your speeding is safe because you are in control and because of that it’s ok if you break the law and get away with it. How about piracy? I know you have never pirated anything. Otherwise you’d have turned yourself in. Because you believe in law and order.
How about drugs? Any drugs. I mean we tried the ICE thing with drugs. Maximum enforcement. How did that work? “But immigration is different” sure. But since you compared it to law and said you need to “change laws” before you do something. I think that is not just a bad take. I think it is an absurd take. No one is under any obligation to follow bad laws. Prohibition proved that. We banned alcohol as a country. Made an actual amendment. We tried (just like with immigration) to change an entire countries behavioral patterns with the heavy hand of government. And thy said “nah”. Now you seem to think that the feds going around breaking up moonshiners were the good guys.
Here’s the thing. What I said is true. I don’t think you can personally tell me anything about the current immigration process. I don’t think you want to know about it because it would challenge your preconceptions and make you think twice. But if you take a good people really want to (American citizenship or a real path to it) illegal, cumbersome, and esoteric to the point that the point is to make it almost impossible then I don’t blame the black and grey market for providing. The demand is there and the supply is there. Let supply meet demand. This is Econ 101.
So hey. You want to engage on this topic on a boring surface level way. Fine “hey everyone just obey the law regardless of what it is!!!!” Is just full of holes. Laws can create their own moral hazard. Our immigration laws are responsible 💯 for the number of illegal immigrants. Full stop. I don’t blame people for breaking them. Much like I don’t blame the veteran for smoking weed to get off of painkillers in some states. But I guess until we change the law that guy belongs in jail.
Then of course there the absolute fact of the matter that law. Especially non violent law is exceptionally contextual. Judges constantly let people off for minor infractions. Can you even believe that some laws don’t have mandatory minimums. Maybe 20 years first offense for speeding might work?
So I stand by my statement. And you’ve given me the reason to reinforce and stand by it harder.
Great set of emails!
MPD officer: thank you for your service. I am so sorry that you’re stuck in the middle of this. I appreciate you! Your perspective shared in this letter is the best thing I’ve heard anyone say about the incidents in Minneapolis. I wish I could give you a big hug because I can only imagine what it takes to get up every day and continue on with your important work.
Much appreciated. I had lived in Saint Paul and enjoyed it until 2020 when everyone went insane and mob violence was seen first hand. After my house was robbed several times and friends were held up at gunpoint for laptops I moved to the burbs. Now with this latest insanity, and believe it I have heard it from all my long time friends, I see no hope for the Twin Cities. My next move will be to rural Wisconsin. The hell with Minnesota.
My question for (most of) these letter writers is, why aren’t you sharing these perspectives in the chat?! We need you in there!
Not one of the letter writers, but I check out the chat occasionally and have posted in there a few times. My experience is that I am very underwhelmed with the quality of discourse in there sometimes. I had high hopes, but it isn't that much better than many other online chat/forum/comment sections. It is very dominated by the same small number of people posting constantly, and some of the frequent posters can be a bit prickly and dogmatic with their opinions (not talking about you), I would even say sometimes bordering on mean. I know a lot of the people in there know each other, so they understand its not personal when it gets heated, but I can imagine this would turn some people off.
This makes sense. I only got involved in the chat recently and I imagine there’s a life cycle for engagement. You need to enjoy being part of the “cast of characters” and find it fun and entertaining. I don’t like meanness either, I appreciate being able to share contrarian views and find support in the chat but I also don’t mind predictable rebuttals (that’s the point!) we are all in this together. Also I mostly post pictures of my 3 dogs
I also think there are many listeners that don't even know the Chat exists. It took me a while to discover it.
I also appreciate posts that share information. It doesn’t have to be a a troll to share a particularly good article or podcast we just found illuminating! But I get why people don’t want to roll around in the mud! Writing emails is a good way to stay above the fray in the chat while providing voice to the voiceless.
I just want to post a recommendation for Alex's excellent podcast and substack History Impossible. His recent coverage of Muslim SS units in WW2 and Haj Al Amin Husseini's relationship with Nazi Germany was excellent and thorough. The link he posted in his email is definitely worth the time.
The joint episode he did with Jack Henneman was also excellent.
Grateful for the insights!
Great letters. Thank you all for an insider view of MSP. I haven’t been since 2010 but it is one of my favorite midwestern cities. Thank you, Samantha, for the gentle reminder about the chat. It’s sometimes hard for us to remember that a lot of our views are very clinical and removed.
These are great and insightful emails, but my brain can't parse the word "Minneapolitan"
MPD officer: we need you in the chat! Thank you for using the term theory of mind when describing the mis(interpretation) of ICE and police officer use of force by activists and pundits. I don’t know how anyone thinks that these public servants (yes including ice) go into these encounters hoping to kill civilians. They get there by dehumanizing them and likening them the Gestapo, Slave patrols, etc…This becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and we get 2020 again.
Thank you for curating and publishing their wisdom.
A good mix of viewpoints represented in these emails.
I grew up on the Minneapolis side and now live on the St. Paul side. And my verdict? This is a case of both sides behaving poorly. And ZERO leadership from any MN politicians to help mitigate it. And that goes for both Democrats and Republicans. And Walz and Frye? Fucking turds. 🖕
Gotta agree with the second email. Cops do have human emotions and I don’t think the officer was looking ok to execute pretti.
I also don’t think that officer has the temperament to be an officer then though. At best he should never work in law enforcement again and I’d be fine with him having a hard time even getting a gun in the future.
As for the “no cop wants to commit violence. They’re human”. Sure. Some probably most . But serial killers are also human at the end of the day. So are gang lords and terrorists. All human. But I rankle at the “all” aspect of this. I think there have been enough examples of cops and even ICE agents that have been quietly fired for doing don’t pretty fucked up shit. Power and powerful positions create a moral hazard that will not always attract the best and brightest. And I agree that is where leadership comes into play.
But I really dislike the “because human=nuanced and good”. Sure. That’s probably a safe assumption and given 1:1 odds you’d do well betting on the proposition. But you certainly wouldn’t win every bet.
There are more than enough people in law enforcement that shouldn’t be, that do relish their power, and that do look to abuse it. It’s not a majority. It’s not even a large minority. But it’s more than enough and also too much at the same time.
No cop should belong to any union.
Not related to this mailbucket, but today I happened to see posts elsewhere by both Christopher Buckley and Abagail Shrier, and I think they would both be good future guests for TFC.
Also good email from mark e. But I need some of these “just enforce the laws” people to explicitly prove that they even remotely understand the laws they really want enforced.
I’m fine with enforcing immigration law. If it was rational and reasonable.
Which it isn’t.
So you have to convince me we allow enough legal immigration every year. And since no one has then I don’t care when people break a self created, xenophobic, prohibition.
People want to come here. Create an actual path with actual steps that actually works.
"I’m fine with enforcing immigration law. If it was rational and reasonable.
Which it isn’t."
That's not for you to decide. Are we a nation of laws or are we not? If you are displeased with current immigration policy then you need to vote in representatives that will change it. I'm astonished at the sheet hubris...
Hubris. Really? So because a law exists we are all ALWYS bound to follow it. Really? Speaking of hubris.
May I unpack this with you? Do you speed? I mean it? Do you? Why? Why don’t speed? Probably a lot of reasons. Most of which end you believe your speeding is safe because you are in control and because of that it’s ok if you break the law and get away with it. How about piracy? I know you have never pirated anything. Otherwise you’d have turned yourself in. Because you believe in law and order.
How about drugs? Any drugs. I mean we tried the ICE thing with drugs. Maximum enforcement. How did that work? “But immigration is different” sure. But since you compared it to law and said you need to “change laws” before you do something. I think that is not just a bad take. I think it is an absurd take. No one is under any obligation to follow bad laws. Prohibition proved that. We banned alcohol as a country. Made an actual amendment. We tried (just like with immigration) to change an entire countries behavioral patterns with the heavy hand of government. And thy said “nah”. Now you seem to think that the feds going around breaking up moonshiners were the good guys.
Here’s the thing. What I said is true. I don’t think you can personally tell me anything about the current immigration process. I don’t think you want to know about it because it would challenge your preconceptions and make you think twice. But if you take a good people really want to (American citizenship or a real path to it) illegal, cumbersome, and esoteric to the point that the point is to make it almost impossible then I don’t blame the black and grey market for providing. The demand is there and the supply is there. Let supply meet demand. This is Econ 101.
So hey. You want to engage on this topic on a boring surface level way. Fine “hey everyone just obey the law regardless of what it is!!!!” Is just full of holes. Laws can create their own moral hazard. Our immigration laws are responsible 💯 for the number of illegal immigrants. Full stop. I don’t blame people for breaking them. Much like I don’t blame the veteran for smoking weed to get off of painkillers in some states. But I guess until we change the law that guy belongs in jail.
Then of course there the absolute fact of the matter that law. Especially non violent law is exceptionally contextual. Judges constantly let people off for minor infractions. Can you even believe that some laws don’t have mandatory minimums. Maybe 20 years first offense for speeding might work?
So I stand by my statement. And you’ve given me the reason to reinforce and stand by it harder.
Between us. I’m not the one showing hubris.
https://www.startribune.com/live-qa-how-minnesota-star-tribune-journalists-deconstructed-video-of-the-good-pretti-shootings/601576767?utm_source=copy
Posting (or attempting to post) a panel discussion of visual journalism - (my friend’s niece is one of them).